What conversation topics put a man on the Friends Ladder with women?
Harwons, as long as you are of the opinion that “let’s face it, the Ladder Theory applies to most women,” you aren’t going to get much sympathy here. Anyway, there are situations where talking about past romantic exploits can help a guy woo a lady, and situations when it doesn’t, and how you talk about those exploits is very important, too. If you say “Man, me and this chick were totally doing it in the park the other night . . .” some women will think you’re a cad, and others will think that is exactly the kind of excitement they need in their life. Except for really obvious topics like expressing a preference for scat play or concentration camp fetishes, what will turn a woman off of sleeping with you really depends on the woman. And hell, you may even find that, um, special girl who enjoys those things.
I’m a woman. If I’m attracted to a male friend, I want to sleep with him. There is no topic of conversation that would make me think “nope, now we are just friends.” There are, of course, things he could say that would make him less attractive to me, but those things would also make him less attractive to me as a friend and a human being. Ladder theory is something men use to comfort themselves when their female friends don’t want to sleep with them simply because they do not find them attractive. And most of the time, women do not find men who lump all women together in a weird, condescending category attractive. Instead of focusing on how to avoid being on the “friend ladder” of your female friends, perhaps focus on how to be on it sincerely. Plenty of women wind up dating their friends. I assure you–women do not really think “but I don’t want to ruin the friendship” if they are genuinely interested in a man as more than a friend. Otherwise, there would be a lot fewer relationships
Wow, thanks for the ladder theory link. I’d more or less picked up what it was from references here on MeFi over time, but hadn’t looked at it before. What a sorry portrayal of how relationships works; it really reads like it was written by one of those guys who has real, real trouble relating to women as people rather than as ambulatory vaginas. As a man, the ladder theory does not describe my experience at all, ever. Sure, I have female friends whom I would (if we were both single, if the planets were aligned, if if if) happily have sex with, and female friends with whom I wouldn’t have sex if you paid me. There’s nothing uniquely male or female about being attracted to some people, and not attracted to others. The myth that men will fuck anything that moves, while women are deceitful keepers of the keys to the vaginas of paradise, is a really sorry way to imagine the world, and just isn’t accurate. But to address the specifics of your question, it’s like Jessamyn says: it’s about to
She’s either attracted to you at this moment in time, or she isn’t. “I can’t have the hots for you” is the giveaway here: it’s extremely difficult to determine who you will and won’t find attractive. There isn’t a toggle-switch, but key events can certainly sway the pendulum in the other direction. It’s entirely possible for a girl to be very attracted to a friend, and to decide against pursuing an immediate relationship because the friendship is so important on its own merits, but I find this uncommon and am more prone to believe that she simply isn’t attracted, or does treasure the friendship and the deeper relationship potential to the extent that she wants to test the waters, evaluate you carefully, and decide whether it’s worth trading the so-far-so-good friendship for something much greater. I find it less likely that a girl would be able to control her “ability to be attracted to” anyone in particular and in this case your best bet is to change your expectations and decide wheth
