Are social movements strengthened when there’s a leftist government?
R.G.: The saddest case was a few years ago when a very powerful indigenous movement in Ecuador (organized in the CONAIE) decided to support a military man in the [presidential] elections. This alliance was a triumph for General Lucio Gutiérrez. The CONAIE co-governed for a short period of time. On leaving the government coalition, after having realized that there was no possibility of transforming things from where they were, some of the indigenous Ecuadorian leaders developed a concept that I like a lot. They described their experience being in state power with the phrase: “We have never been as weak as when we were in the government”. As paradoxical as that sounds, they explained it quite clearly: “because when you are in the government, the only thing that we could do was behave like the government does.” And I thought, of course. We must seek a social transformation that completely changes the manner in which things have been thought-out and proposed. Meaning we have to rethink pol
